Looney posed a great question on his blog. He wondered how we should view the following two scriptures: (I hope you don't mind if I use the KJV Looney. And I apologize in advance for all of the underlined words. I thought I got rid of those when I did a search to find my scriptures :S)
John 6:46 (I'm going to add verse 45 for clarification)
45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
46Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.
John 14:9 (again, I will add a few verses for clarification)
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Here we have two apparently conflicting scriptures that talk about seeing God. One seems to be saying that no man can see God the Father. The other says that if a man has seen Jesus Christ, he has seen the Father.
We have a great account in the scriptures of someone who saw both God the Father and Jesus Christ. After Stephen preached to the members of the council, they were angry with him and ultimately stoned him to death. But before he was killed, Stephen had a vision, and in it saw both God the Father and Jesus Christ. This is one of the best eye witness accounts in the Bible. In Acts 7 we read:
55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the righthand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.
Clearly, Stephen saw two personages, standing side by side. Stephen himself bore witness that he saw God the Father and Jesus Christ. But the key to how a man could behold God is to look at the second part of John 6:46 which says that no man can see God "save he which is of God". Even Moses, who was a man of God, had to have the glory of the Lord come upon him to be able to endure the presence of the Lord. In Exodus Chapter 3 we read that Moses was afraid to look upon the face of God.
"6Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God."
But God did speak to him face to face "out of the midst of the bush".
Later, after receiving the ten commandments, the people noticed a physical change had come upon Moses:
29¶And it came to pass, when Moses came down from mount Sinai with the two tables of testimony in Moses’ hand, when he came down from the mount, that Moses wist not that the skin of his face shone while he talked with him." Exodus 34:29
In fact, the children of Israel could not even bear the glory that was upon Moses:
"But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:"
It is only through this physical change that a person can endure the presence of God. The term for this change is "transfiguration". The Savior was transfigured in the presence of the apostles on what is known as the "mount of transfiguration". At this time, the Father bore witness of the Son.
1And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
3And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
4Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias.
5While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him."
So we clearly see that a man may see the face of God and live, but only if a spiritual/ physical change comes upon him to allow him to endure the presence of God. He must be, as noted in John 6:46, "he which is of God".
Now let's look at the second scripture. There are a couple of different ways to view this scripture.
John 14:9 (again, I will add a few verses for clarification)
9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.
12Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
First of all, many have used this scripture to support their belief that God the Father and Jesus Christ are one person. But in verse 12, Jesus explains that He is going unto the Father. If He were the Father, why should he go to him? In the garden of Gethsemane, the Savior prayed that the Father would take the cup from him. Why would he pray to himself for help? He was praying to his father for help.
In fact, I don’t believe that these two scriptures that Looney offered can be understood together if we don’t accept that God the Father and Jesus Christ are two separate beings.
I want to make special note here that Joseph Smith also saw the Father and the Son when he was but 14 years of age. He bore witness that they are two separate glorified beings.
I love this passage in Phillipians 2:5-11
5. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
This passage clearly shows the separate identities of God the Father and Jesus Christ. God the Father sent Jesus here, and has exalted him because of his obedience. Jesus, “being in the form of God”, (just as we all are made in the image of God), was also equal with God, as part of the godhead.
So if Jesus and the Father are two separate beings, then why would Jesus say, "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father."?
My comment on Looney's blog was, "We believe that God the Father, and Jesus Christ are two separate beings. Jesus Christ is the literal son of God. He is the mediator for us. For us, the term "one God" refers to the idea of the Godhead being united as one. In John 17 the Savior, in praying to God the Father said,
"20Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
21That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:"
When He prayed that they would be one, as He and the Father are one, He wasn't saying that they should be one being. His prayer was that they should be one in purpose, and united in agreement."
The Savior is our mediator with the Father. It is also like He is God the Father's representative to us. He gives us the Father's will. He acts in total alignment with God's will.
"19Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." John 5:19
Christ acts for the Father, and acts in total unity with the Father.
But let's look at the idea of Jesus being our Father. God the Father is the father of our spirits. He is the actual physical father of Jesus Christ. Jesus is His only begotten in the flesh. So how can Jesus be a Father to us? One of my favorite scriptures is Isaiah 53:10.
10¶Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of theLord shall prosper in his hand.
Jesus Christ did not have children while in mortality. But Isaiah tells us that when we take advantage of the offering for sin that Jesus Christ made for us, then Christ will see His seed. We will become his spiritual children. In this way, He is also the father of us.
So in summary:
1. No man has seen the father except he be “of God”, and have gone through a transfiguration to allow him to endure the glory and presence of God.
2. To see Jesus Christ is to see the Father because:
a. He is in unity with the Father’s will
b. He becomes a spiritual father to us when we accept his atonement on our behalf.
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