Wednesday, May 5, 2010

Book of Mormon Sampler: 2 Nephi 2:6-8



2 Nephi 2:6-8


6 Wherefore, redemption cometh in and through the Holy Messiah; for he is full of grace and truth.
7 Behold, he offereth himself a sacrifice for sin, to answer the ends of the law, unto all those who have a broken heart and a contrite spirit; and unto none else can the ends of the law be answered.
8 Wherefore, how great the importance to make these things known unto the inhabitants of the earth, that they may know that there is no flesh that can dwell in the presence of God, save it be through the merits, and mercy, and grace of the Holy Messiah, who layeth down his life according to the flesh, and taketh it again by the power of the Spirit, that he may bring to pass the resurrection of the dead, being the first that should rise.

13 comments:

thekingpin68 said...

Thanks for your blog comment. There are a couple of replies to you, one from me and another from a blog link that deals with Mormonism.

If you reply, I will look for it on my blog. If not, all the best.

Russ:)

Delirious said...

No offense Russ, but your blog has shown me who you are, and your purpose. What you write isn't an accurate presentation of our beliefs. That troubles me greatly and I feel that if you would misrepresent us this way, I can't trust anything you would write. Others may choose to "kick against the pricks" but I don't have the desire to come along for the ride.

Rick b said...

Delirious,
I just love how LDS claim they are so full of love and what not, then out of the side of their neck they speak with double talk.

You guys claim we are anti mormon, yet first off many of you have no clue what your founders taught, second you guys are always crying about how we judge you guys, yet you turn around and judge us very harshly.

I love how you guys claim we take things of of context yet you never seem to tell us exactly where we are going wrong or what the truth really is.

Are you even aware of these things you church teaches? Before I share let me be honest and say, You probably will not read everything I write, If you do not, then that should show you your heart and show that you really do not care.

LDS Members are always saying 3 Nephi 11:29, 'He that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil. First off, I would like to say, this is not taught anywhere in the Bible. So for those who believe that the BoM is another gospel and basically a work of the devil, then we believe the Devil would teach this.

He is going to want you to believe this because then people will avoid answering hard questions that simply question their faith. The Idea of Contention being of the devil, if this were true, then I see a lot of problems in the Bible. Jesus and the apostles plus prophets in the OT did and said things that easily could be viewed as Contention.

John the baptist said


Mat 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?



Jesus said


Mat 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.



Notice here in these verses, the People were offended because of him.


Mat 13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this [man] all these things?

Mat 13:57 And they were offended in him. But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, save in his own country, and in his own house.



Granted Jesus is both Perfect and Speaking the truth, they were offended by the Truth, but still People who claim they are Offended or I am being Contentions means nothing, It in my mind is simply a way to avoid the truth, by claiming it is not true but of the devil.

Here is two more things Jesus said, that Could be taken as a spirit of Contention.


Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

Mat 15:15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

Mat 15:16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?



Jesus calls the leaders Blind, and says to His Disciples, Are ye also yet without understanding?
In today's words, Jesus would be saying, Are you also Stupid?

Something Else Jesus said to his Disciples,

Luk 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken



He called his Disciples, Fools and slow of heart.

Can you believe Jesus did this!

Jhn 2:15 And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables



He whipped the people and overturned their stuff, if that is not mean and a form of Contention I don't know what is.
Cont,

Rick b said...

Cont,
Now lets look at this verse,

Col 4:6 Let your speech [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.



Notice in this verse the word SALT. I have been in the restaurant business for around 20 years. We use salt to draw blood out of meat, and it draws impurities out of food, it helps slow the growth of yeast in bread, and in the Scripture the use of yeast always refers to Sin and false Doctrine. We use the salt, (Truth) to slow down or kill doctrinal error, and when salt is poured and your hand has a cut on it, it hurts.

We read in Scripture
Galatians 4:16 puts it, "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" I could say that, because I share the truth with you and you get mad, you feel it is Contention.

Paul says in
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Paul points out these two people as teaching false Doctrine and says it is a canker. Paul even goes so far as to name names. This could also be taken as Contention.

The Bible tells us in 2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. We are told to REBUKE, REPROVE, EXHORT. These things can all be taken as forms of Contention.

Now lets look at what the LDS prophets and Scripture teach.

Read

D and C 66:7 68:1,9 go into the church's public or private to discuss this stuff. D and C 6:9-11 says convince us of our error if we have any.

Why do I get accused of being contentious for doing what the scriptures teach. Now let me add this, would you agree it is good to listen to the mormon prophets? If so then I am. Read

pg 188 of doct of salvation vol 1 I quote. "CHURCH STANDS OR FALLS WITH JOSEPH SMITH. MORMONISM, as it is called, must stand or fall on the story of Joseph Smith. He was either a prophet of God, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen. their is no middle ground. If Joseph Smith was a deceiver, who willfully attempted to mislead the people, then he should be exposed: his claims should be refuted, and his doctrines shown to be false".




Why if your president and prophet said to do this and I believe it, I am in the wrong?. Did your Prophet not read that verse about contention? Let me also add what the apostle Orson Pratt said.

Rick b said...

cont,

The Seer pg 15. I quote " if we cannot convince you by reason nor by the word of God that YOUR religion is wrong we will not persecute you".



Notice he is speaking to people of others faiths. And he states he is trying to show they are wrong through talks, but says if we cannot convince you. Well I don't feel I have persecuted anyone if they disagree. Let me add what else he said.

I quote Orson pratt still pg 15.

"we ask from you the same generosity--protect us in the exercise of our religious rights--CONVINCE US of our errors of doctrine, if we have any, by reason, by logical arguments, or by the word of God, and we will be ever grateful for the information, and you will ever have the pleasing reflection that you have been instruments in the hands of God redeeming your fellow beings from the darkness which you may see enveloping their minds".



I am just trying to look at mormonism in a logical way and point out what I believe are problems. I find it interesting that mormons of old were willing to tell others they were wrong or be open to talks, But it does not appear to be that way today. Then even after what Orson Pratt said, he does and feels should be done with the LDS I am still accused of being Contentious for sharing.


Ok this is stuff your Prophets have said about Christians. And if this is true, how can you say your a christian. If it is false, then your prophets were wrong, so could they be wrong about other stuff? Also regardless of whether it is true or not, could this be taken as a form of contention?

Here is what some of the former LDS Prophets and presidents have said about christians and I Quote:
"B Young: "with a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199). I quote 3rd president John Taylor (Brigham Young quotes Mr. Taylor) "Brother Taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell, the eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and kicked onto the earth" (J.O.D 6:176). I quote Heber C. Kimball "Christians-those poor, miserable priests Brother Brigham was speaking about-some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth" (J.O.D 5:89)." then we can add the first vision by Joseph Smith. If God really did speak to him then he said all the christian creeds are an abomination in his sight.

I would think the Prophets who said that, had the Devil's Spirit of Contention. Rick b

Delirious said...

Can I be perfectly honest Rick? I started to read your comments in my inbox, but ended up skipping over most of it because of the tone. I really think you will probably be happier reading a different blog that has an author that agrees with your views. I'm not writing this blog to argue, or to contend. I have met with many other bloggers how had the same spirit of contention, and I have learned from experience that I'm just not interested in discussing with people who are anti-mormon, or who have such severe dislike of our church. But thanks for stopping by. I hope you can find a blog that suits your tastes more.

Rick b said...

If your not honestly going to look into what I said, then how can you be honest and say you love the lord but allow me to walk in darkness, this shows you do not know your church or want to now what they really teach. Remember acts 17:11

Plus I did not come here to debate, I saw you hit and run full of misinformation on Russ's blog and was leaving a reply, but yopu simply show what frauds you really are by not even reading what was said. Your the one who does the cherry picking you accuse us of. Rick b

Rick b said...

If your not honestly going to look into what I said, then how can you be honest and say you love the lord but allow me to walk in darkness, this shows you do not know your church or want to now what they really teach. Remember acts 17:11

Plus I did not come here to debate, I saw you hit and run full of misinformation on Russ's blog and was leaving a reply, but yopu simply show what frauds you really are by not even reading what was said. Your the one who does the cherry picking you accuse us of. Rick b

Delirious said...

Rick,
I don't feel that my comments on the other blog were "hit and run". I was SHOCKED at all of the attacks and misinformation, and simply wanted to make the point that ALL of it was way off the mark. I wasn't there to start an argument. And frankly, I have no interest in returning to that kind of a blog.

In addition, the tone of your comments is so full of anger and hatred, that I simply don't even want to engage in that kind of a discussion. I don't mean to be offensive in saying that, but I am really just not going to get in to a discussion that is one of contention. Even if I were to discuss these things with you, it would not change your opinion of our church. It is clear you have a steadfast view, and that is not going to change by anything I am going to say. In the same way, I have already received an answer from God about my religion, so nothing you say is going to change my mind. So what is the point of discussing with you further? I hope you can find another blog that satisifies your interest.

Rick b said...

Let me add one more thing, if you read all of what I wrote, I showed you what YOUR BoM said and what your prophets said about engaging people like us. If you are really open and honest to hearing the truth then you would know that.

A question for you? do you or other LDS only talk to people that never question anything? If you say no, then why do you say to me or Russ that you do not want to talk to us.

Do you really care for the lost and have a desire to seem them come to the LORD?

If so why not share where we are wrong? I suspect you cannot so thats why you do not. Rick b

Rick b said...

You say my tone is full of anger so you do not want to talk to me, I guess you never read about Jesus making a whip of cords and beating people, Or the apostles calling blindness upon false teachers.

What about this from your OWN PROPHETS?
read 1 nephi 14:10 "behold there are save two churches only; the one is the church of the lamb of god, and the other is the church of the devil; wherefore, whoso belongeth not to the church of the lamb of god belongeth to that great church, which is the mother of abominations; and she is the whore of all the earth." someone please tell me how that is not anti-christian. read on. i quote b young: "with a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called christian world" (journal of discourses 8:199). i quote 3rd president john taylor (brigham young quotes mr taylor) "brother taylor has just said that the religions of the day were hatched in hell, the eggs were laid in hell, hatched on its borders, and kicked onto the earth" (j.o.d 6:176). i quote heber c. kimball "christians-those poor, miserable priests brother brigham was speaking about-some of them are the biggest whoremasters there are on the earth" (j.o.d 5:89).i can go on. please contact me for further talks at rickshelli@hotmail.com -RB (non-LDS)


Your leaders can say this about me, but I tell you you are wrong and I am accused of being full of hate? I think you better check your facts. Rick b

Delirious said...

Rick, do you really want to be converted?

Rick b said...

Here are the Big points I am trying to get across.

1. LDS claim us "Anti-Mormons" Are filled with hate. But yet LDS ignore the fact that the BoM calls us members of the church of the devil and were abominations.

2. LDS claim we judge them, yet LDS turn around and judge us unworthy of the Gospel. They judge our hearts by saying we really do not want to hear the truth so they wont tell us.

3. The LDS Claim we take things out of context and cherry pick, Yet they never show us where or how wwe are wrong and correct us in love as the scriptures tell us.

4. LDS as your self admit you do not read all of what we write, so how can you judge honestly and say we are wrong or misquoting when you really do not know?

5. LDS claim we know we are correct because we prayed about it. Yet the JW's and muslims and all other religions claim the same thing. Yet not only does the Bible teach to search the Scriptures and not say, Pray about truth, but so does the BoM.

So my point is, where is the love from LDS that they preach so much about? I see none, and you guys wonder why we say what we say. Your actions tell me you are not interested in the truth or even care for the lost. Rick b