Sunday, May 24, 2009

What Would I Give Up?


Recently, a blogger friend, Livingsword, commented that he felt our church isn't Christian, and suggested that maybe our church should give up and join the other Christian churches. He suggested we should donate our chapels, and in essence absorb in with the other Christian churches. Of course we would never consider this silly notion, we are one of the fastest growing Christian churches in the world today. But I will lay aside the absurdity of this suggestion and give my reasons for why I personally would never consider such a notion.


First of all, which church should I join? There are many different Christian churches, with very differing beliefs. Should I join those who believe in baptism by immersion, or those who believe in baptism by sprinkling, or those who don't believe baptism is necessary at all? Should I join those who believe in being saved by grace alone, or those Churches that believe that grace is accessed through repentance? Should I believe in those Christian churchess who believe in a literal resurrection, or those who believe in no resurrection at all? Should I believe in the Christian church that only uses the New Testament, or one that also uses the Old Testament? Should I join the Catholic church, from which the others broke off, or should I join a church that was started by a man in this generation. Clearly, we can't lump all Christian churches in together, because they aren't all the same.


Because they are so different in their beliefs, should some of them not be called Christian? They all believe in Jesus Christ, but their teachings vary so much that they clearly can't be considered the same. Yet we allow them the freedom to call themselves Christian because they do believe in Jesus Christ. Why do so-called Christians not allow our church the same freedom?


If I were to give up my religion, there would be more that I would be giving up than just a name. For me, the loss would be great. Asking me to give up my religion and join the other churches in the world is like asking a college graduate to give up his college diploma in exchange for a mere high school diploma. Why would I give up the further knowledge and blessings that I have already received for something lesser?


Here are just a few things that I would have to give up:

--I would have to give up having a living prophet to guide me, who receives current revelation for my day.

--I would have to give up additional ordinances that help me progress spiritually. Included in these ordinances are temple ordinances such as eternal marriage, and the eternal "sealing" of families. I would also have to give up the ability to do baptism for my deceased family members who never had the chance.

--I would have to give up the Book of Mormon which has greatly increased my testimony of the Savior Jesus Christ, and has strengthened me and brought me closer to Him.

--I would have to give up my knowledge of the plan of salvation. Our Sunday School teacher today made an interesting observation. The word "plan" does not appear in the bible. It does, however, appear numerous times in the Book of Mormon. Yet most christian churches today refer to the "plan of salvation" that the LDS church has been teaching about for over 150 years.

--I would have to give up my understanding of the pre-existence, and my knowledge that I am a literal spirit child of God.

--I would have to give up a church that has the same organization that existed in the early church, which today has living apostles and prophets, just like the church the Savior set up.

--I would have to give up being a member of a church that has the Priesthood authority of God. This Priesthood authority was lost from the earth after the death of the apostles. It is bestowed on a person by the laying on of hands. After the apostles died, there was no one left to pass on that authority. In modern days, John the Baptist, and Peter, James, and John restored that authority by the laying on of hands, to Joseph Smith, who in turn ordained others.


I could write much more, but suffice it to say that if I left this church for another, I would be leaving much, and gaining no ground. This church has all of the puzzle pieces. This church has the same organization as Christ's early church. I think we could be considered among the truest of fundamentalist Christians because we follow the gospel as it was preached and set up in the early church. We believe that an apostasy occurred, causing the original church to be lost, and we believe it was prophesied by many, including Paul, and Amos. We believe this is truly Christ's church restored to the earth in fulfillment of prophecies about a "restitution of all things".


I have prayed and received an answer from God that these things are true. I invite all to not rely on my words, but to study it out in their own minds, and pray to God to receive their own testimony.


I can remember once seeing a very small child with a $5 bill. An adult, in a teasing manner, offered to trade the child for a $1 bill. The child was very young, but knew that what they had was worth more than what the adult was offering. I too would never trade my religion for one that offers less. I would never sell my birthright for a mess of pottage, even if it did win me acceptance by other Christians.

10 comments:

Inklings said...

Amen, Delirious, I absolutely agree with everything you have said. To paraphrase Henry David Thoreau, I am Mormon to my very core and rind. If something happened that I could not attend the LDS church, I would worship privately at home.

Inklings said...

PS, the reason I couldn't find your LDS radio blog was because I was looking on the wrong blog.:0) Don't worry about Livingsword's comments. I believe he just loves to argue. We know we believe in the living Christ and that he directs our church through a prophet, and that is enough. Arguing just brings contention. Listen to your older sister on this one. :0)But you and Nene both made some very good points.

Stick said...

I have read the ongoing discussion, and thought I would chime in. When Christ himself was on the earth, he showed that there was authority needed to act on the part of God. In fact, some tried to bribe him into giving them that power. Those who tried to act without the authority, were unable to do as they wished. Delirious, has amply mentioned the scriptures dealing with authority, and what it means to be a Christian. Livingsword seems determined to confuse the issue.

To be a christian simply measn to believe in Christ as the son of God and the savior of the World. If you have that belief, you are considered Christian. Those who claim the LDS church is not christian do so claiming that we worship Joseph Smith, and not Christ. This is patently absurd. We acknowledge Christs hand in all things, and revere him as the LIVING savior of the World.

We do not claim that other churches are not christian, that too would be absurd when they so clearly worship Jesus Christ. Our ONLY claim, and the only claim Joseph Smith ever made, was that all other churches are missing parts of the truth, and the authority needed to direct God's church here on Earth.

You claim that the Authority to act for God came through Peter to the Catholic Church, and thence down through the ages through any who truly believed in Christ, to the current collection of Churches on the Earth. However, Christ ordained ONE church, and ONE group of apostles, not the disorder and and disagreements of doctrine that exist today.

The scriptures say that there must be an apostasy--a falling away. You claim that this never happened. Is it yet to happen? If, as you say, Christ ordained Peter so that the power would never leave the Earth, then he would be countermanding his own prophecy of an apostasy.

It did occur. Christianity did not leave the Earth, only God's authority. Truth did not leave the Earth, but it was corrupted by the beliefs, traditions, and frailities of man. The Holy Spirit bears testimony of truth wherever it is, even through the dark ages, but a restoration has occured to restore ALL truth, not just the pieces that survived the apostacy.

Christ lives, he is our savior, our guide, and the basis of all we strive to do. We would force our beliefs on no man, but want all to hear the truth, and have the opportunity to decide for themselves. Christianity does not exist in any one church, not even ours, but the truth does, as well as God's authority. Of that I testify in the name of he of whom we speak, Jesus Christ, Amen.

Livingsword said...

Hello Delirious!

I am honoured to have gained mention here on your blog...(although a bit of “link love” with my cognomen would have been sweet, linking to Life on the Blade etc...you know you are on my blog roll)
:)

This post is very infotaining...well done!

Your words here actually make my point. In your article “Mormon Radio” you bemoan the fact the Mormon organization are calling it “Mormon” and then go on to say:

“I guess they decided it was a losing battle, so are giving in to the public given nickname, just trying to educate people that we are in fact Christian.”

As the rejection of Mormonism seems to be such a hurtful thing to so many Mormons and they are so very often saying that they are the same as the Christian Church I being a simple person delivered a simple solution. Quit Mormonism sell all your buildings and give them to whatever Protestant denomination you choose. After all if we are all the same you don’t have to worship someplace else....

However you here accurately portray that Mormonism and Biblical Christianity are irreconcilable which is true. We are so different that Mormonism may well be Islam compared to Christianity. As I said this is all fine you guys can do your Mormon thing and we will do our Jesus thing...freedom is wonderful...we can peacefully coexist...

In my city there must be at the very least 50 different Christian denominations (excluding Mormonism, JW’s, Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox for example as none of these are Biblical Christians). I would be fine being a part of any of those 50. On the essentials they would all be the same. One Triune God, salvation by God’s grace alone through faith alone in Jesus alone, we would agree on Who Jesus is, what He has done and what He will be doing, the Bible alone...all of these denominations have these in common...they all would have genuine Jesus followers His Church among the congregation...

Mr.Smith started his religious system and you are correct to say it is so different from genuine Biblical Christianity you would not cross the floor to us, Mormonism teaches a different Jesus and a different gospel which is an un-gospel. That’s fine...I’m not evangelising you. However I would be happy to also go into more detail on the list of the things you are not willing to give up...

By the way a search of the Bible I have here in my hand shows me the word “plan” occurs 85 times in its text...

Delirious said...

The word "plan" does not occur in the King James version of the Bible. It was introduced in modern versions.

Stick said...

LS--thanks for your comments. Try actually reading ours. Those who believe in Christ ARE christians, your ascertians to the opposite will not change that fact.

Livingsword said...

Hello Inklings nice to meet you…

You said:

“Don't worry about Livingsword's comments. I believe he just loves to argue.”

Perhaps instead of attacking my person you could attack my ideas…ad hominem attacks are hardly compelling…

Just because a person disagrees with your point of view does not mean they are not listening, it can be because the Mormon point of view is in error.

Livingsword said...

Hello Stick…nice avatar….

I have read and contemplated every comment here…do you always accuse people who disagree with your point of view of not listening to your views? After all I could make the same accusation but that would seem hardly fair…it would be disrespectful…

Perhaps my points are too subtle and for this I apologize. The meaning poured into the name Jesus is different for Mormonism than for Biblical Christians. Mormonism holds a completely different view of God than that of the Bible. Who Jesus is and what He did on the cross is different for Mormonism than that in the Bible. Mormonism has a different gospel than that presented in the Bible (Mormonism is not Biblical in the way it regards grace and faith and therefore salvation). As Mormonism has a different gospel than that of Biblical Christianity that means we are not the same. After all this is why you are trying to encourage me to convert…and when I say that I do not find Mormonism to be true I am told I am not listening…my character is attacked instead of my ideas…

Now let me be very clear here…it does not bother me one iota if Mormonism tries to label itself as Christian. However the facts are Mr.Smith’s Mormonism is not Biblical Christianity. This being said since we Biblical Christians have ownership of this “label” and you do not, and you present a very different belief system as different from Biblical Christianity as say Islam why should you even care? Be yourselves stop trying to pretend you are us…it is reminiscent of the Pepsi challenge...the more you try to compare yourselves to the real thing the more it becomes obvious the emperor has no clothes…instead perhaps you should push the newer better perspective you do not win with the genuine authentic standard…personally I could care less if Mormonism thinks my beliefs are Christian or not…

I am very thankful for this conversation…a communication such as with the exchange of ideas and ideals in the market place of ideas is healthy for society…and individuals.

Inklings said...

Livingsword, that wasn't meant as an attack, I was trying to calm my sister with a possible explanation. Are you by chance a lawyer? Or a debate coach? :0)
I will admit that I do not like to argue. I make it a point to never argue politics nor religion, because I do not believe arguing ever convinces anyone else and it jsut stresses me out.
I have seven kids, therefore I have enough drama in my life.

Inklings said...

PS - I really can spell just. Evidently I just can't type. Or proofread.