Sunday, August 16, 2009

Quote of the Day: George Q. Cannon

No matter how serious the trial, how deep the distress, how great the affliction, [God] will never desert us. He never has, and He never will. He cannot do it. It is not His character [to do so]. He is an unchangeable being; the same yesterday, the same today, and He will be the same throughout the eternal ages to come. We have found that God. We have made Him our friend, by obeying His Gospel; and He will stand by us. We may pass through the fiery furnace; we may pass through deep waters; but we shall not be consumed nor overwhelmed. We shall emerge from all these trials and difficulties the better and purer for them, if we only trust in our God and keep His commandments. ["Freedom of the Saints," in Collected Discourses, comp. and ed. Brian H. Stuy, 5 vols. (Burbank, California: B.H.S. Publishing, 1987­92), 2:185; emphasis added]


Mormon Truth said...

I agree so much with that statement! Praise God. He is unchanging!!

The only thing that has me questioning is this: If you believe that God is unchanging, how could he be an exalted God, a God who was once a man like we are now?

Delirious said...

Hi, Sorry I'm so slow to answer your question. I'm out of town with limited internet access.

Unfortunately, the Bible doesn't give us much information about God the Father. But it does give us much information about another God; Jesus Christ. It shows us how He came to Earth and lived as a man, then died and was resurrected and received an immortal body.
"19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise." John 5:19

We too are children of God. A child grows up to be like their parent.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. Romans 8:16,17

G. Pasarescu said...

In reply to MT:

The scriptures testify repeatedly that God is unchanging (see, for example, Mormon 9:19; Moroni 8:18; D&C 20:17). It would be impossible for us to have faith in God if He was fickle, or if He was somehow increasing in power and knowledge and found out another way to save His children than through His Son. How grateful I am that He is unchanging! I have faith in Him and trust His word.

Do you believe in Jesus Christ? Do believe what the Bible teaches about Jesus Christ? If so, then you must believe that Jesus was God before He took upon Himself flesh, that He was God while on the earth as a mortal, that He died as God, and that three days later (as God) He rose from the dead with His physical body (see John 1:1-3, 14; 20:19-28).

Is Jesus Christ the same yesterday, today, and forever? How can that be if He was at one time only a spirit being, then a man, and is now a resurrected being with a glorious body of flesh and bone?

Do you see the dilemma you raise based on your understanding of the word unchangeable? From this perspective, either:

1. We worship a changeable God;
2. The scriptures that testify of Christ are not true; or
3. The words "unchangeable, unchanging" must refer to something different than what you infer above.

The Prophet Joseph Smith revealed the following truth, spoken by the Savior, as recorded in the Book of Moses:

"For behold. this is my work and my glory - to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man" (Moses 1:39).

His purpose - which is the same as that of His Father and of the Holy Ghost - is unchanging. It is to bring to pass our immortality (which has been secured for all of God's children born to the earth, thanks to the Atonement of Jesus Christ - hurrah!) and eternal life (which is available to all who will accept the Savior, His Atonement, and His teachings - including faith in Him, repentance, baptism by immersion by someone who has His authority, and receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost). This does not mean that God our Heavenly Father could never have at one time been a man who lived on an earth - look at the Savior as an example! Yet, as God, his purposes, plans, expectations, and love are unchanging - and for that I am truly grateful.

Mormon Truth said...

Hi G Pasarescu. I understand what you are saying. I do believe what the Bible teaches about Jesus Christ...and when I think about God, and being unchanging, and him being the same, yesterday, today, and forever, I definitely think that means that God has ALWAYS been God. I think that is the major issue. If he has always been God, then he could not have been a man...a regular man...and then become God. With God, there is no beginning and no end. For how great God is...would you ever think to yourself, "Wow, God is so Great...I wonder who created him??" That would just not make any sense. Doesn't that take away from God, even if you say, "we only worship 1 God"? But you know in your mind that someone else created our God, right? (According to what the LDS church teaches)

Delirious said...

The LDS church does not teach anything about the creation of God the Father. We have no revelation, or instruction on that issue.

I guess my question would be, if we can't become like God; if we can't continue to progress after this mortal life is over, what are we going to be doing for the rest of eternity?

Mormon Truth said...

Delirious, in response to your question, "What are we going to be doing for the rest of eternity?" My answer is: Serving God. Does serving God for an eternity not sound appealing to you? What a joy it would be to live with God, and serve him forever!

G. Pasarescu said...


What did John mean when he said that "as many as received him [Christ], to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name" (John 1:12)?

What did Paul mean when he said that "the Spirit beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together" (Romans 8:16-17)?

What did Paul mean when he told the Athenians that "we are the offspring of God" (Acts 17:29)?

What did the Psalmist mean when he wrote "What is man, that thou are mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou has made him a little lower than the gods (Hebrew - eloheim), and hast crowned him with glory and honour" (Psalm 8:5-6)?

What did the Psalmist mean when he wrote "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High" (Psalm 82:6)?

What did the Savior mean when he quoted that very scripture, saying "Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (John 10:34-36)?

I wonder what you think the Savior is trying to tell us through His servants, the prophets, and through His own voice, as recorded in the New Testament?

Delirious said...

I think that if I were found worthy to carry out the heritage that God has to pass on, that would be serving God. It would be building on what He would give me as a "joint heir" with Christ. I believe in eternal progression. If we stop progressing, and stop learning, we are damned. I don't think that is what God had in mind for His children, any more than it is what I have in mind for mine.